***Original Piece can be found at The Huffington Post, click here to be redirected there***
America's relationship with the Islamic world continues to be defined by hostile confrontation: the so-called war on terror, the bloody conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the political crisis in Pakistan, and the continuing stand-off with a theocratic Iran over its nuclear program. Managing these challenges has dominated the Bush presidency, and the same tasks will preoccupy whoever takes over in January 2009.
The next president, however, will also need to broaden the political discourse, redefining America's interaction with the Islamic world so that is not only about combating violence and extremism. With America's standing in the Middle East at historic lows, Muslim communities in Europe largely estranged from the majority populations around them, and Islamist movements on the march in the Middle East and beyond, building bridges of dialogue and understanding will be increasingly important.
The difficulties involved in building such bridges have been encapsulated in the controversy over Tariq Ramadan, a Swiss-born Muslim intellectual currently based in the Britain. A devout Muslim who insists that traditional Islam can coexist in mutual respect with the liberal societies of the West, Ramadan has become an obsession of the U.S. and European media. Indeed, The New Republic last June devoted more than 28,000 words - a substantial portion of the magazine - to probing his background and writings.
But despite all the attention, opinions diverge widely as to whether Ramadan should be revered or reviled. Some commentators praise him as Islam's Martin Luther, an intellectual activist who will help oversee an Islamic Reformation - and hence a perfect interlocutor for the West. Others assert that he only masquerades as a moderate reformer, and is in reality a dangerous absolutist who brooks no compromise between Sharia and modernity.
Ramadan certainly holds opinions that run contrary to mainstream Western views on many issues -- including gender equality, the role of religion in society and the benefits of global capitalism. But the inordinate amount of attention he attracts is less a product of his admittedly distasteful views than our own paranoia about the perceived threat that traditional Islam poses to our liberal and pluralist societies.
Ramadan purports to be intent on diminishing mistrust between the Islamic world and the West, including between Muslims living in the West and the non-Muslim majorities alongside them. He is certainly not the secularizing renegade that many Americans and Europeans would prefer as an intermediary. But precisely because he is seeking to build bridges between traditional Islam and modern Western society, he does represent the kind of intellectual capable of broadening understanding on both sides of the communal divide. He should be engaged with caution, not treated as a dangerous pariah.
Ramadan's recent employment history is a good indicator of the controversy he provokes. He is now a fellow at St. Antony's College in Oxford. But while one of Europe's finest universities finds him fit for an appointment, the United States does not even deem him worthy of entry. Notre Dame University offered him a professorship, to begin in 2004. Ramadan intended to take up the post, but was ultimately refused a visa by the U.S. State Department on the grounds that he had made financial contributions to two European charities that had provided funds to Hamas.
What makes Ramadan so hard to pin down is that he is simultaneously at home in seemingly incompatible worlds. He is urbane, erudite and multi-lingual. He supports "universal values," and argues that Muslims living in the West should participate fully in the political and civic societies of which they are a part. Ramadan condemns terrorist violence in favor of dialogue and peaceful resistance.
But Ramadan is also the grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. He believes in the upholding of traditional - his critics would say reactionary - Islamic attitudes toward the role of women, going so far as to side-step the question of whether female adulterers should be stoned. Ramadan disavows any hint of anti-Semitism, but is a vociferous critic of Israel's "unjust and wretched policies which continue to kill an entire people in an occupied territory." He rails against the economic inequalities and materialism that he attributes to the spread of capitalism.
To be sure, some of Ramadan's ideas are offensive to the West's liberal traditions. But so are those of devout practitioners of other religious creeds. In the end, Ramadan seeks a synthesis that enables his community to preserve its beliefs and traditions while coexisting peacefully with and within the Western world - precisely why he needs to be engaged, not shunned.
All the attention devoted to Ramadan has done at least as much to exaggerate his influence as to elucidate his views. In addition, his notoriety masks the reality that a Reformation within the Islamic world -- like its counterpart in Christianity -- will evolve more from deeper social transformations than from the role of individual leaders.
Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli certainly played important roles in the onset of pluralism within Christian Europe. But at least as important in bringing pluralism to Christianity and eventually separating church and state were the Enlightenment, the scientific revolution and the Industrial Revolution. The social upheavals they spawned hastened the spread of rationalism, the rise of middle classes, the establishment of public education systems, and other developments that shaped modern Christianity and prompted the secularization of political power.
Western intellectuals would be better served figuring out how to expose Islam to similar developments, and less time spilling ink over one public figure who, however controversial, may well be able to modestly advance Islam's dialogue with the West.
13 comments:
"Western intellectuals would be better served figuring out how to expose Islam to similar developments, and less time spilling ink over one public figure who, however controversial, may well be able to modestly advance Islam's dialogue with the West."
And this, in my opinion, is the key point to be made. People have a propensity to latch onto symbols and singular personalities, because we like to associate a face or an image with concepts to make them easier to digest and deal with.
The fallacy of this arrangement, however, is that the problem is usually much more complicated than any one man or woman.
Yay, Ramadan wants peace with the West. Great. One down, 1.2 billion more Muslims to go.
"1 down and 1.2 billion more Muslims to go." What the fuck kind of statement is that? Because I know and respect you I will refrain from calling you a racist in the hopes that I have understood. But seriously, I am not sure how many Muslims you have know or if you have ever visited a Muslim country, but from my experience most Muslims do not believe that there is some great religious war to be fought with the West. They feel misunderstood by the West and at times victimized by (real or perceived) policies that promote US (and Israeli) interests in the Middle East while giving the shaft to huge swaths of the population (99% of whom are Muslim). And the situation is getting worse. I for one have a hard time blaming Muslims for being a bit paranoid. The last 3 targets (I count Iraq twice) of US invasion were Muslim states, and now the sights are set on Iran. Now, I personally think religion has little to do with it and it's more the war mongering a morally bankrupt and megalomaniacal administration, but I imagine that if I were a Muslim living in the Middle East (or anywhere else) I might view this as more than just a coincidence.
Wow, really, though. Very disappointed in that last post. I hope I have misunderstood.
Technically speaking Reed, a dislike or hatred of Islam is not racist, because Islam is not a race. It could be religious intolerance or deemed "bigotry" but not racism - Muslims come in all races.
Before I really begin here, let me preface my thoughts with the following two paragraphs:
I find Judaism via its major texts: elitist, self-important, intolerant, anti-homosexual, anti-women's rights, anti-human rights, militant, misguided and intellectually stunted given the world of modern science and understanding. And often the culture that surrounded and still surrounds some of Jewish belief is vile in many forms (see the Book of Esther for a shining example). That is not to say all Jews are that way at all. Most Jews thankfully ignore the idiotic crap in their holy books and traditions and live rather normal lives with compassion and kindness. They are good people who just happen to identify as Jews.
I find Christianity via its major texts: see all the problems with Judaism above, plus pro-slavery, self-loathing, and often misanthropic. Throughout the centuries Christians have been responsible for terrible crimes against human life and have bred for some thousand plus years a culture of death and hate (see the Crusades, see the Inquisition, see the toasted people for countless year upon year in Europe). That is not to say all Christians are that way at all. Most Christians thankfully ignore the idiotic crap in their holy books and traditions and live rather normal lives with compassion and kindness. They are good people who just happen to identify as Christians.
Islam is much the same way. It has had a violent past and theological intolerance from the get-go (see the whole Medina-Mecca thing with Mohammad). For instance Sam Harris devotes 5 and a half pages in his book The End of Faith to quoting the absolute intolerance of the Hadith - which is the collected oral traditions surrounding the words and deeds of Mohammad. And the Koran itself has a number of passages that are not exactly welcoming to "pagans" or "infidels" or whatever the translation might be for unbelievers (and you are TOTALLY FUCKED if you are guilty of apostasy). A number of authors on the subject have argued, quite fairly in my opinion, that theologically Islam wants either the world to convert or be subjugated. I can quote passages if you'd like. Those who are moderates in the faith might claim something other than what I am saying, I welcome and encourage that. Hell, I want someone to tell me I am wrong on this one. The evidence seems to make a strong case for the incompatibility of Islam and Western secular culture.
I am glad to see Ramadan at least confronting some of the issues between Islam and the West: terrorism, women's rights, Israel-Palestine. Though I am not sure that the two are ever going to mesh. And honestly, I find his views a bit out-of-touch (as I do with most views based on ancient texts that should have been discarded years ago).
And luckily, most Muslims are just people trying to live their lives and they ignore the idiotic crap in their holy books and traditions in order to treat people with decency, compassion and respect. They are good men and women who just happen to identify as Muslims.
Eventually I believe all religion will be rather incompatible with the secular West. Science has met and dispensed with every argument with religion it has had. Hopefully it will continue to enlighten and guide the West along with its counterpart Reason (though it has been in short supply recently). And in general, despite the intolerance vomited forth in the Torah, The New Testament, The Hadith, and the Koran, people have decided to try and get along in many places anyway, though religion makes for bloody borders.
Please, don't think I am being intolerant here. I think people have the right to believe anything they want no matter how ridiculous. But I am not going to treat religion with kid gloves because someone's feelings might get hurt. It should be debated and discussed and the evidence examined (though I would argue religion has NO EVIDENCE). Religion needs to become off off-limits status and discussed for what it is. That includes merits, flaws and even the theological hatreds that abound (at least the three Abrahamic traditions). I want a real discussion about this to take place in the world. We need to talk about the future of mankind and the need for peace for our posterity and if religion has a place there or not.
Oh, and on the topic of "Has the US done terrible things to the Middle East in the recent past?" Um, yes. Do most Muslims in the Middle East have a legit gripe with the West? Um, yes. Should they be treated differently because of their faith? No. But I do think Islam is (as with most other "faiths") at its base incompatible with Western values.
Hope my argument is not racist ;-)
I wasn't calling Beck a racist, but ok, Pope, you are right. I more appropriately should have said the statement was intolerant or smacked of religious bigotry.
At any rate, I stand by the assertion. However, I would also tend to agree with you that each of the Abrahamic faiths include many, many non-liberal components and in many ways are not compatible with the age of science and reason. And yes, there are extremists in each of these groups: the Zionist settlers in Israel, radical evangelicals in the US, and radical Islamists in the Middle East and elsewhere. I see them all as essentially similar. Now, the important question here would be, given that they are rooted in the same tradition (essentially) why have Judaism and Christianity been better able to embrace modernity (again, I not saying all or even most Muslims can't or haven't)? One answer that seems to be thrown around (too much I think) is that Islam for the get go was a violent and intolerant faith. That argument, however, runs into two problems: 1) Judaism was arguably just as violent from the get go--the God of the Israelites commanded them to bath in the blood of their enemies as I recall. Yet, most people would not assert that Judaism is today a violent and reactionary faith. 2) There is tremendous variation in the Muslim world over the use of violence and the idea of religious tolerance. In fact, many Muslim nations are ethnically/religiously heterogeneous and embrace some semblance of religious tolerance. Moreover, even in the many cases where wars have broken out between Muslims and other religious groups, the "religious" component of the conflict has evolved secondarily--that is, the conflict reinforced ethnic identities and made them salient over time. Take Bosnia for example--before the collapse of Yugoslavia the Bosnia Muslims were highly tolerant and intermarried with other faiths with some frequency. Moreover, Bosnian Muslims embrace (nominally) western political, social, and scientific values.
The point of this is that there is no simple relationship between the origins of a faith and the outcome of the belief structure 1000 plus years on. Religions are dynamic and change significantly over time. The origins certainly shape the faith and define some parameters, but how it is interpreted and the behaviors of adherents centuries later is the product of human not divine intervention.
All that said, I would be happier, I think, in a world were people saw religion as allegorical not factual and relied more on science, reason, and whatever personal spirituality they construct. Yet I would still not begrudge people their faith.
Wow, Reed... Just, wow. From my end, it looks like you are way, way, WAY over extending for the soul purpose of appearing as righteous as possible, while simultaneously characterizing me as a card carrying member of the KKK, the SS, and the Pol Pot fan club.
Now step back for just a moment, take a deep breath, and wash the sand out of your dick hole.
I was making a little tiny joke, intimating that many muslims might have a less than rosey opinion of the west today, and that we have a long way to go to restore/fix our image and our relationship with them.
Now, if I pitched an over-zealous self-righteous stink for every racist/elitest/sexist/anti-religious/culturally-insensitive joke *you* ever made, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be enough oxygen in the atmosphere to power my lungs long enough to do so.
Man, seriously...
Hey, I'm all for putting Reed in his place and all, heck, I even joked about Reed's comment in my comment, but come on Beck add to the discussion here. Some interest points have been raised and I would like to hear your (and any one else reading's) opinions on them. Your perspective is appreciated, bad jokes and all - you know I can tell a bad/distasteful joke with the best of them.
Clearly I misunderstood, which is why I said I would "refrain" from calling you a racist. It was certainly not clear from your statement that it was made in jest. Maybe I stepped over the line in suggesting any kind of intolerant overtones, but many statements you have made recently have overgeneralized the attitudes of a great many from the actions of a few. So, before you bring my dick hole into the conversation maybe you should consider the tenor of your comments in the context of a serious conversation.
Jesus fucking Mohammad in a bukake rabbi circle!
Hey, I'm all for putting Beck in his place and all, but come on Reed add to the discussion here. Some interest points have been raised and I would like to hear your (and any one else reading's) opinions on them. Your perspective is appreciated, bad jokes and all - you know I can tell a bad/distasteful joke with the best of them.
Ugh!
Very well then. So as to not deviate from the spirit of this discussion, I will "refrain" from calling Reed an irascible, rhetorically trigger-happy lefty with a sandy dickhole, and move on to the matter at hand.
To be perfectly honest, Pope, you and I see pretty much eye to eye on the issue of religion vs. politics, and I don't have a lot to add beyond what you've already stated.
And to my original point: It's all fine and dandy that the western media has latched onto this individual for his interesting world view... but how much stock does the rest of the Muslim world put in beliefs? Can hard-line, conservative Islam co-exist peacefully alongside western values?
For instance: The beliefs of many conservative Islamic sects are misogynistic at best. Women are often second class citizens, even in many moderate Islamic countries.
And whether we like it or not, our western values dictate that we should interfere on the behalf of those who, though willing, cannot stand up for themselves. Sure, many women willingly submit to this level of subjugation... many, many others, on the other hand, do so only because they fear beatings, imprisonment, bodily mutilation, etc. at the hands of their husbands, family, or government.
And it isn't just women who suffer... In many conservative Islamic countries, one can be put to death for converting from Islam to any other religion.
You can be imprisoned for years for allowing your school children to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
Sure, we who consider ourselves thoughtful, enlightened people seek tolerance and understanding of cultures different from our own. But at the same time, we chafe and express contempt when beliefs we do not share are enforced, especially on the helpless.
And frankly, hard-line conservative Christianity was no better 400 years ago. And Judaism for almost 2000 years before that.
Will moderate Islam prevail? Well, it already is. The vast majority of Muslims would describe themselves as devout but moderate, and already share many of the values we would describe as "western". But I think very conservative forms of Islam will always rub the west raw, and our propensity for interference likewise.
PS: Previous comment deleted for grievous spelling errors. Really wish we could edit our posts. :P
Lefty...sure, why not? Sandy dick hole? Where the hell did you come up with that? That aside, and resisting the urge to call Beck an intolerant fascist, I actually agree with many of Benito's points.
The point I would like to contest is the notion that hard-line Christianity was no better 400 years ago and Judaism 2000 years ago. In general, these were far more radical at those time points; but realistically, those same principles exist in the modern world in those faiths. Just wait, when we live under the glorious rule of Rev. Mike Huckabee we will again bask in the light of intolerance, misogyny, and a hatred of science (than man seriously believes the Earth is 6000 years old people). No, I'm kidding, that could never happen...or could it?
Anyway, I digress. The point I wanted to make, or more appropriately, the question I wanted to bring up, was given the similar origins of the three faiths in question, what explains the current divergence in terms of toleration and liberalisms? Or is there one? Is it simply that Western culture muscled out religion in favor of secularism and science? Is it that Judaism and Christianity really have become more benign and reformed overtime? And if so why and how did this occur? To say that the Protestant reformation occurred and that is why Christianity is in general more moderate reflect more than a bit of circular logic. The question is why did it occur?
Relatedly, why is there a tradition of state-church separation in the West whereas there is appreciably less in many Muslim countries (though far from all). The 100 years war? It did break the back of the ancien religious regime and fundamentally transform church-state relations in Europe forever (and created the modern nation state). So maybe if we expect to Islam to undergo some type of reformation we should expect a couple decades of bloodshed. Indeed, a number have scholars have suggested that the much of the violence in the Middle East is essentially a region-wide civil war between hard line-zealots, true reformers, and secular autocrats. And the reason that the US suffers the fallout in terms of terrorist attacks and such is because we have made allies of the secular autocrats--basically the US chose to involve itself in a civil war it didn't understand (or didn't realize was happening) and now it suffers the blow back from that decision.
But that still doesn't answer the fundamental questions, however. What are the conditions that allow or pressure a faith to become more moderate? What factors cause the individual adherents of a faith to reject radicalism and adopt moderate or reformist elements? More pointedly, there is the important question of why individuals embrace extremist views of religion. I am sure most people don't wake up and think "Today I will become a radical Islamist." There exists some set of conditions or confluence of factors that causes individuals to radicalize, and these should better understood. I think that arguing about Islam being somehow "backward" and incompatible with Western values is a nonstarter until we address the core issue of why people choose to support radicalism rather than reform in many Muslim states.
I have a good bit to say in response to Reed, but alas the time for family gatherings in upon me. I will craft the response and try and post it in the next few days.
Crap. I just realized in my last post that I meant that the 30 Years War (not the 100 Years War) broke the back of the Church in Europe. My fault. And damn, I Was even a history major. And as a funny side note, I was checking Wikipedia for other names of the 30 Years War and noticed that the entry's neutrality is in dspute. How can you dispute the neutrality on that? Odd. Anwyay, just a quick correction. Sorry. I look forward to responses from both Benito and the Pope. tol to both of you.
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