A Taste of Torture

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Cheney enters 'torture' memos row

Former US Vice-President Dick Cheney has urged the CIA to release memos which he says show harsh interrogation techniques such as water-boarding work.

His comments follow the publication of memos written by Bush administration lawyers which justified the techniques.

Mr Cheney said that the decision to publish the memos was a mistake.

And it was misleading, he said, because the documents did not include those demonstrating that harsh interrogation delivered intelligence "success".

"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is that they put out the legal memos... but they didn't put out the memos that show the success of the effort," Mr Cheney told Fox News.

JUSTIN WEBB'S BLOG
Justin Webb
The real question - of course - is whether waterboarding is justified under any circumstances

Read Justin's thoughts in full

"There are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. I formally ask that they be declassified now."

The American people should have a chance to weigh the intelligence obtained alongside the legal debate, he said.

Mr Cheney made his comments as US President Barack Obama visited the CIA headquarters just outside Washington.

In a move seen as an attempt to boost morale, Mr Obama told employees that the CIA remained key to protecting the country.

Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge that potentially we've made some mistakes
Barack Obama

Interrogation 'morass' for Obama
Q&A: Water-boarding

Staff had faced a "difficult" few days, he acknowledged, but they had his full support and were key to tackling threats from groups such as al-Qaeda.

Mr Obama said he had had no choice but to release the Bush administration's legal justification for interrogation techniques, which he considers to be torture - and has banned.

"Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge that potentially we've made some mistakes.

"That's how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be president of the United States and that's why you should be proud to be members of the CIA," he said.

The memos, detailing the range of techniques the CIA was allowed to use during the Bush administration, were released on 16 April.

Quoting one of the memos, The New York Times said water-boarding - or mock drowning - was used on two al-Qaeda terror suspects on up to 266 occasions.

Other methods mentioned in the memos include week-long sleep deprivation, forced nudity and the use of painful positions.

Mr Obama on Thursday said he would not prosecute under anti-torture laws CIA personnel who relied in good faith on Bush administration legal opinions issued after the 11 September attacks.

But he has been criticised by human rights organisations and UN officials, who say charges are necessary to prevent future abuses and to hold people accountable.

Nice Cheney, nice. Torture works...The memo release was a mistake, but at least the administration could have shown the memos that suggest it works? You are a dark and scary man...

UN Rapporteur On Torture: Obama’s Pledge Not To Pursue Torture Prosecutions Of CIA Agents Is Not Legal

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/19/obama-violated-int-law/

When President Obama released the four of the Office of Legal Counsel’s (OLC) Bush-era torture memos last week, he issued a statement promising not to pursue torture prosecutions against CIA agents who relied on the memos to justify their use of torture tactics on terrorist suspects in U.S. custody. (Notably, Obama left open the possibility of prosecuting the torture architects.) “[I]t is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to prosecution,” Obama said.

But in an interview with the Austrian newspaper Der Standard, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Professor Manfred Nowak, explained that Obama’s grant of immunity is likely a violation of international law. As a party to the UN Convention Against Torture, the U.S. is obligated to investigate and prosecute U.S. citizens that are believed to have engaged in torture:

STANDARD: CIA torturers are according to U.S. President Obama not to be prosecuted. Is that decision supportable?

NOWAK: Absolutely not. The United States has, like all other Contracting Parties to the UN Convention Against Torture, committed itself to investigate instances of torture and to prosecute all cases in which credible evidence of torture is found.

Indeed, Article 2 of the convention on torture explains that “no exceptional circumstances whatsoever” can be used to legally justify torture. Further, the convention states that an “order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.”

Nowak explained that by invoking the OLC’s memos as justification for the actions of CIA agents against terrorist suspects in U.S. custody, Obama is acting contrary to U.S. obligations under the treaty:

STANDARD: In other words, by making this announcement, Obama has violated international law?

NOWAK: Correct. It is a violation of binding international treaty law in this case, because this is an international law convention — and it provides unequivocally that states are not merely obligated to make torture a crime, but also to prosecute any incidents of which credible evidence can be found.

In announcing his decision to release the OLC memos, Obama also suggested that he is not inclined to conduct a full investigation into the government’s use of torture. Nowak, however, said the he believes that such an investigation ought to be Obama’s highest priority. “Most importantly, there should be a comprehensive investigation undertaken by an independent body. Whether by a special investigatory commission created by Congress or by a special investigator — there are different approaches,” Nowak expalined.

Scalia Says Torture not Punishment

Not sure how long this will stay up since I think Comedy Central pulls them after a day or two, but I found this funny...and then very, very disturbing. Torture is not punishment? And this is why it is not considered under US law as "cruel and unusual punishment"? WHAT THE FUCK? Why is this man among the most powerful legal minds in the country? He would probably be best fitted as special counsel to a Sith Lord. Ugh....shudder. I will see if I can track down the actual interview with Barbara Walters *correction--CBS interviewer that is not Barbara Watlers* so that we can view the statement in context.

Water-boarding 'would be torture'

US national intelligence chief Mike McConnell has said the interrogation technique of water-boarding "would be torture" if he was subjected to it.

Mr McConnell said it would also be torture if water-boarding, which involves simulated drowning, resulted in water entering a detainee's lungs.

He told the New Yorker there would be a "huge penalty" for anyone using it if it was ever determined to be torture.

The US attorney-general has declined to rule on whether the method is torture.

However, Michael Mukasey said during his Senate confirmation hearing that water-boarding was "repugnant to me" and that he would institute a review.

Whether it's torture by anybody else's definition, for me it would be torture Mike McConnell US Director of National Intelligence

In December, the House of Representatives approved a bill that would ban the CIA from using harsh interrogation techniques such as water-boarding.

President George W Bush has threatened to veto the bill, which would require the agency to follow the rules adopted by the US Army and abide by the Geneva Conventions, if the Senate passes it.

'Painful'

In the interview with the New Yorker, the US Director of National Intelligence said he would regard water-boarding as torture if it was used against him.

The controversial technique involves a prisoner being stretched on his back, having a cloth pushed into his mouth and/or plastic film placed over his face and having water poured onto his face. He gags almost immediately.

"If I had water draining into my nose, oh God, I just can't imagine how painful!" he told the magazine.

WATER-BOARDING Prisoner bound to a board with feet raised, and cellophane wrapped round head. Water is poured onto face and is said to produce a fear of drowning

"Whether it's torture by anybody else's definition, for me it would be torture."

Mr McConnell said the legal test for torture should be "pretty simple".

"Is it excruciatingly painful to the point of forcing someone to say something because of the pain?" he added.

But the retired vice-admiral declined for legal reasons to say whether the technique should be considered torture by the US government.

"If it ever is determined to be torture, there will be a huge penalty to be paid for anyone engaging in it," he said.

CIA officials have been quoted as saying that water-boarding has been used on three prisoners since 2001, including al-Qaeda recruiter Abu Zubaydah, but on nobody since 2003.

In July 2007, President Bush signed a controversial executive order on the treatment of suspects detained by the CIA which did not outlaw the agency's use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as water-boarding.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/7185648.stm

But is it "enhanced interrogation"? In all seriousness, it's nice to see someone put it into perspective--that is, if it were done to them would they consider it torture.? Interestingly, I have read some (odd) posts on other blogs where people subjected themselves to this technique or had someone else do it, and the resulting opinions seem to be unanimous. One person even said they would take having their fingernails pulled out over the induced feeling of drowning this procedure produces. But then, they didn't try that on themselves, so you have to take that opinion with a grain of salt. Still, it seems pretty awful to me.