- "Only 47 percent of soldiers and only 38 percent of Marines agreed that noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect."
- "Well over a third of soldiers and Marines reported torture should be allowed, whether to save the life of a fellow soldier or Marine … or to obtain important information about insurgents…."
- 28 percent of soldiers and 30 percent of Marines reported they had cursed and/or insulted Iraqi noncombatants in their presence.
- 9 percent and 12 percent, respectively, reported damaging or destroying Iraqi property "when it was not necessary."
- 4 percent and 7 percent, respectively, reported hitting or kicking a noncombatant "when it was not necessary.
- The study also reports that only 55 percent of soldiers and just 40 percent of Marines would report a unit member injuring or killing "an innocent noncombatant," and just 43 percent and 30 percent, respectively, would report a unit member destroying or damaging private property.
I don't even know what to say. I am speechless. This is not who I thought we were. If that's the American Way, I want no part of it. I am saddened and a bit sick... this is how we "liberate" people?
8 comments:
Yup, a very disturbing and open faced look at the psychology of the average American war fighter in Iraq today. I wonder how these numbers might differ in Afghanistan?
Now, one thing to remember is that before a soldier or a marine is an American, he or she is first a human being. Be sure to note how many of these findings DOUBLED with those who find themselves in prolonged combat situations. I think that’s hugely important.
When you put a soldier or a marine in a situation where they have to fear every single piece of garbage or broken down car on the side of road, look over their shoulder every second they are on foot patrol, and watch buddies get blown to pieces by people you’ll never even see, much less engage in combat, it slowly tears away those layers of the Super Ego that are intended to allow you to interact with people normally.
And to exacerbate the situation, the enemy that is killing your buddies isn’t wearing a uniform or flying a flag you can see. They look and dress like everybody else in the civilian population… Even worse, most in the civilian population don’t like you, and will lie to your face when you ask them for information that might help you. Hell, they lie about things because they just don’t want to get in trouble for owning an AK or having a Saddam Hussein poster in their bedroom.
Not to mention the fact that you just can’t communicate with the general population because you don’t speak their language, or understand their cultural nuances (and they don’t understand yours) The result is that you stop trusting the people in the general population, and don’t WANT to like them, help them, or even be nice to them. You become resentful, and start to see them ALL as pathological liars, insurgents, or insurgent sympathizers… even though that isn’t the case at all.
And the result? By treating everyone as an enemy, you MAKE them your enemy. In the past 4 years, we’ve MADE more insurgents than we’ve captured or killed for these very reasons.
And because we don’t have enough boots on the ground, we don’t have enough people to rotate in and out of combat zones on a regular enough basis. Hell, some units are in Iraq serving a THIRD tour of duty as we speak. That’s approx. 24 months in country, if you don’t consider deployment extensions.
So before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, let’s recognize what the problem really is: It isn’t that we’re sending bad people to Iraq. What’s happening is we’re sending good people into a piss-poor situation with poor support, and the result is that despite their training, these soldiers and marines are slowly breaking down because they are first and foremost human beings. And human beings can only take so much psychological hardship before they start to develop these mental calluses, if that makes any sense.
We just don’t have a large enough a military to successfully execute a large scale invasion and occupation. Using the last century of warfare as a yard stick, you generally need a squad of 10 soldiers patrolling a population of around 1000 people to maintain peace and order while occupying foreign soil. So do the math… assuming Iraq has a population of approx. 270 million people, we would need to more than DOUBLE the 138,000 troops we have there now… And keep in mind, 138,000 troops does not = 138,000 combatants. Nearly a third of that number are members of support services: mechanics, artillerymen, cooks, pilots, clerks, etc.
Is it any fuckin wonder? >:| We deployed a force capable of defeating any other army on the planet… but not one strong enough (or trained) to occupy an entire country and maintain law and order.
It's a tar baby of our own making.
Oops, I meant to say that Iraq has around 27 million people, not 270 million. My bad.
How does that honestly mitigate the fact that over half of the soldiers and Marines believe that noncombatants shouldn't be treated with dignity and respect? I just simply do not understand, that should not be.
Considering this report, we have zero moral or ethical authority to be in there at all. If our soldiers and Marines have so little respect for life, liberty, or the rights of property of the people of Iraq, we DO NOT BELONG THERE. We are doing more harm than good: to our boys in uniform, to the Iraqi people, to our standing in the world, to our ethical mandate to be a responsible member on the world stage, and to the general welfare of the Middle East and indeed the world.
We must solicit the help of the rest of the world NOW... no we MUST implore the assistance of the rest of the world NOW.
With this report, everything the administration told the world, the Iraqis and the Earth was a lie. To find WMDs in Iraq? None found. Stop Al-qaeda in Iraq? They weren't they until we arrived. Liberate the Iraqi people from a system they feared and that robbed them of basic human rights and dignity? Well... we changed the oppressors, now instead of just the baathist government its: the baathist resistance, the Shia restistance, the foriegn fighters, the government in place and the invading forces who overwhelmingly do not think that even the noncombatant Iraqis deserve respect or dignity. This is a complete catastrophe! A failure on a colossal scale, over 64,000 civilians have been reported killed by our actions.
We invaded their country. We have a responsibility to humanity to set an example of how to engage in ethical actions at this point. We are not. Not on the ground, and not in the hearts and minds of the people.
The psychological reason you have given in my mind are the reasons we should have never gone in in the first place... sounds a lot like the same things said about Vietnam. I am not saying they aren't true. I'm just saying, history must mean nothing to us as a people.
I recognize the armed forces are human beings, but I also recognize the Iraqi people are human beings too. I try and afford them the same feelings I would extend to our own people. We are not liberators, we are not there to help the Iraqi people, we are an invading foreign power that usurped control for our own ends. If we removed the labels of nationalities, and presented the scenario to most rational people, I think that they would tag our side as the villains. Or if we switched the roles, would the Secularists and Christians rising up against the Eastern Muslim Devils be "freedom fighters" if the army in charge held us in such low regard.
I am at a loss. I was one for staying in and fixing what we broke. But increasing I am beginning to think we are problem, or at best fuel for the fire.
I don't think that our boys in uniform are evil. I don't want to downplay the psychological factors you bring up. I don't think they are there to just beat up and bully poor little Iraqis. But in light of this report, I think we need to seriously consider if our presence is a positive or negative shadow on the land. Maybe we need to examine the possibility we have failed. We need to reevaluate before it's too late and ask for help and leave as soon as possible.
This report shook me to my core. I think I hold deep traditional American values and considering we revolted because we thought men deserved life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, this report makes me question if that dream was all a lie... or represents an America that is long gone.
I am not capable of not being an idealist. Perhaps I just need to find a different ideal.
I feel so terribly bad right now... for thinking and saying this whole comment. But I promised myself to be in all things as truthful as I possibly could. And I can't feel any other way. I feel abandoned, betrayed, and so very very sad.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
"I try and afford them the same feelings I would extend to our own people."
That's easy to say from the comfort of your own home. Of we would want to treat each and every Iraqi with the same respect and cordialness you would treat anyone else that lives right down the street... right up until you lose a couple friends, and nearly get blown to pieces 4 or 5 times. I imagine these numbers quoted would be COMPLETELY different if they were taken 4 months after the invasion, instead of 4 years. Any American serviceman worth his salt took great pride the idea of kicking over a dictatorship and helping an oppressed people live freely. There’s a quote that is very popular with the military services, and you’ll find it just about everywhere on a U.S. Military base:
“It is a worthy thing to fight for one’s freedom; it is another sight finer to fight for another man’s.” -Mark Twain
It’s ingrained in our military culture. Our soldiers don’t fight on American soil. They fight somewhere else, for someone else. That’s just the collective mindset.
The problem is, you start to lose faith in this ideal very quickly when the population you’re fighting and dying for is actively trying to kill you. After four years of it, I think most servicemen on the ground are simply trying to survive their tour and get home. They’re fighting to protect themselves and their buddies, and they just can’t give a shit anymore about the ideals they brought with them four years ago.
Now of course we should be revolted by the numbers in this report. We're both Americans, and we both believe strongly in "The American Way". But if we’ve lost our way today, that doesn't mean we don't know where we SHOULD be… but we do need to find our way back.
Speaking as a conservative who initially supported the invasion:
1. We should NOT have gone in without more help from the international community from the get-go. If we couldn’t gain that support, an international consensus and military contribution, then we should have stayed home.
2. We shouldn't have tried to rebuild the entire government infrastructure from scratch. De-Baathification and the disbanding of the army were two of the WORST decisions we could have possibly ever made, and I’m convinced that the perpetual violence that is being endured today is a direct result.
3. It is way too late to win anyone’s hearts, minds, whatever. I’m fairly certain that at this point, minds are made up, and we’re not going to win any more friends in Iraq than we have now.
But who are we going to appeal to for help? What nation on this earth is going to willingly commit troops to Iraq given its present condition? We can’t even get the U.N. to maintain a presence there, much less the allies that came with us in the first place (Japan, Italy, Spain). And from the looks of things, the Brits are on their way out, too.
Hell, we’re having a hard enough time trying to get our fellow NATO nations to maintain their commitments in Afghanistan, which is a tea party in comparison to Iraq.
So it’s just us, and the Iraqi forces we are training.
We agree that our being there is unacceptable. We’re not doing any good there, and at best, we’re preventing a complete meltdown of the country. But what are the conditions for an acceptable withdrawal?
- Right now? And watch Iraq completely disintegrate?
- When The Iraqi Security Forces can maintain their own country? But if they can’t do it on their own by now, what makes us think they ever will?
To completely abandon Iraq is a morally reprehensible choice… but staying there isn’t helping either? What is the solution? (The least horrible one, that is)
Every American in their right mind wants us out of Iraq as soon as possible. The problem is that we can’t agree on what makes withdrawal possible, and we all know that once we leave, and things go poorly, we can’t go back. It’s an irreversible decision.
So if you think you’re in agony over his report, rest assured that those of us that actually supported the invasion are equally vexed, if not more so. At the very least, you can always resort to “I told you so.” We, on the other hand, have little recourse but to sulk over how our good faith and support of the mission were squandered by the administration, who sent our international prestige straight into the shitter.
I'll try to keep this short. :-)
I do have feel for the rational supporters of the war who have seen the light. Seriously, that is a bad place to be. But I don't think I'll stoop to "I told you so" at this point. As we have discussed prior to now, though I was an obvious opponent of the Iraq War, I think we have to deal with the pooch as its been screwed.
We can debate the proper way to withdraw from the continued conflict. Do we set "benchmarks" or "deadlines"? Do we withdraw slowly over the next few years or do we begin taking out troops now and be out by the end of this year? Will congress have to cut funding to get our service men and women home? Can someone/anyone get the administration on-board with it? All valid topics of debate. But we should frame them in a different context of an overall discuss of such things I believe.
I do have one question, that I have had for some time now. How does the Iraq War defend our freedom? I just don't see invading a sovereign nation without provocation or international support defends "our" freedom. I see this as military action independent of "defending my freedom", always have.
And who do we ask to assist in rebuilding Iraq? What about other Muslim nations? What about allowing the international business community to bid for contracts in Iraq? The whole "if you are with us, you're against us" attitude has to go. There are surely unexplored options here, if we would remove the blinders.
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" - Vizzini (The Princess Bride)
Since this is pretty well trod soil, I will only interject one strong point of contention--I don't really believe that US servicemen go into combat with a mindset of liberating the oppressed. Some do, don't get me wrong; there are surely good people in the military. But a core aspect of the military, any military, is a certain level of brainwashing, which is often reduced to a simple us versus them, kill or be killed, THEY are the enemy, etc. etc. This is logical since what you are doing is asking people to put themselves in harm's way, and, really, protecting the innocent doesn't make that many people voluntarily catch a bullet. What does is to convince them that there are a whole bunch of people who want to kill them, attack their country, destroy their way of life., etc. So just listen to interviews with soldiers or posts on their blogs. Often what they talk about is how they believe are defending America or killing terrorists.
A related problem is that ALL warfare hinges on the ability to dehumanize your opponent. People, most people, most people with a soul or a conscience, couldn't go out and bomb a village or shoot another person without being able to perceive the target as something distinctly other than themselves, less human. What happens then, is exactly what we are witnessing in Iraq, a widespread perception (that I think we see at home as well) that an American life is worth more than an Iraqi life. I find that despicable; and yet it usually slips by under the mantle of collateral damage.
One last thing. This one seriously irked me, and there is no excuse:
"Only 47 percent of soldiers and only 38 percent of Marines agreed that noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect."
Highlight on non-combatants. What the hell? If our soldiers don't believe treating non-combatants with a little dignity and respect is something we should do it is clearly no wonder why we lost the battle for the hearts and minds.
Brian said: "I do have one question, that I have had for some time now. How does the Iraq War defend our freedom?"
The rational that was made was that if Hussein's dictatorship was toppled and a strong democratic Iraq grew in its place, then it would provide a concrete example where the West is NOT the enemy of Islam, that we’re CAN be a force for change for the better in the life of the average Muslim, and hopefully spark similar movements in Iran, Syria, et al. If we could undermine the overall mentality that we were enemy, then perhaps we could erode support for extremists like Al-Qaida. I.e. the invasion was supposed to be a long term plan where toppling Hussein was the first domino in a chain of events that would lead to our favor.
But for such a plan to work, a HUGE number of very optimistic variables needed to fall into place; and frankly, I don’t think ANY of them did. The score now is 0 to 123882348723, I believe. Oh wait, the Kurds like us, so 1 to 123882348722.
Everything that we needed to happen in our favor didn’t:
- No international support other than lip service from countries that didn’t contribute squat.
- Thus, no military contributions to give us the numbers we needed to maintain a brief, but secure hold on the country before leaving.
- 0 help from Muslim countries. In fact, Syria and Iran are only exasperating the situation.
- We dismantled the infrastructure of the entire country… but can’t maintain security long enough to rebuild it.
- We disbanded the Iraqi army, and suspended benefits to Iraqi army vets… creating thousands of fighting age males with weapons training that now have a beef with us.
- As a result of a prolonged occupation by combat troops not trained to perform as police officers or diplomats, the indigenous population now hate us.
- Now the country is a war torn shit hole of misery… a shining example of American good will for sure.
- Abu Ghraib. I think that pretty much speaks for itself. :(
- Iran now has MORE influence in the region
- Syria is the same ol’ happy go lucky Syria.
- We have cemented for the next century our position in the world as the Great Satan. Sweet. *sigh*
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